Creatine ATP Serum, does it work like it says?
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Creatine ATP Serum, does it work like it says?
Basically I have seen page after page on the internet about the Creatine Serum at www.creatine.com and am wondering if it acutally works like they say, no loading, only take it on lifting days. If it is true great, if not I don't want to be ripped off. Please help me out.
I am not sure if it works but if there is a vitamin world in your local mall they probably have it cheaper than it is sold on the internet.
John,
I had the same question until i scrapped up enough money to go get some...
I think it works great and recomend it to you. It leaves you energized,builds your endurance, and leaves you without sorness the next morining" wich i thought was great". The only thing is that i recomend taking it about 30 minutes before you workout instead of the recomended 5 minutes- this is just to give it some time to kick in. If you want some find a Vitamin World its cheapest their.
I took it and did not see any results from it.
Oh, creatine works, but you have to take it continuously to make any steady gains from it and the gains you make will be artificial. That's why I would recommend glutamine over creatine as it is a very underrated supplement which will have a lot more effects; however, if you can, take the creatine and glutamine together! Need some help reaching your fitness goals or have a question about fitness? Drop me an e-mail! Take care and God Bless! :)
Does anyone know anything about the new Creatine Serum by Muscle Marketing USA? Is it any good? Does it really do what it says? Any ideas?
jordan- my personal experience with creatine serum is it just energizes you. it made me almost too hyper to get any good sets in, but it if you can control it, it keeps you from getting tired as quick as you normally would. after i was on it for a few days, it helped me add those last couple reps and even more sets, which is what really makes your muscles grow. i liked it just for the sake of it giving me extra energy to work out for longer than i usually did. it gets expensive after a while, but i suggest you try it for yourself. just don't think that you are going to get schwarzenegger-like results from it. hope this helped.
frank - What, then, if any, supplement would you suggest to both build muscle mass as well as increase strength and allow for harder workouts?
i just started taking androstat6 poppers last week and they are incredible! this shit builds muscle and strength quick as hell. just be sure and use chrysin along with them 'cause if ya don't you'll probably get bitch tits. chrysin is an estrogen surpressor and helps kick the andro into effect more quickly. i like andro better than creatine because the gains you get from andro stay after you stop using it in a cycle. all the gains i got from creatine were false gains and went away when i stop using it. hope this helped.
Creatine syrum, from my experience seems to level out quickly. Initially you seem to recieve a great deal of a energy boost, but after a few weeks the intensity levels out. It seems ridiculous and expensive to cycle creatine, especially when there's better and more effective products on the market...like Nor's and andro's.
In responce to the last post, don't worry about so called "bitch tits", unless your genetically predisposed to such effects. (meaning you were chunky and had girly nipples as a child)
i took cratine grlutamine peptide for 5 weeks and it worked great, the only prob. was i ran out of money, but in that time my flat bench max went up by 40 lbs. and my muscles got pumped a lot easier and quicker, after i stopeed using it, i got a little smaller but i was bigger than when i started. the next step is for me to try the serum and that is what i'm gonna do, since i heard so many great things about it.
this suff is great for enerygy but thats it,i have used it and alot of other products,if you never did creatine and think this is the stuff your mistacand,you will FIND YOURSELF DISAPPOINTED.USE A REAL CREATINE POWDER IS THE REAL DEAL.PLEASE TAKE MY EDVISE
uwanafight is a stupid bitch!
LOL!
I took it for 3 weeks and found out that it sucks! I is no better then any other creatine if not worse! I have talked to friends who said that they aggree with me when i say that cell-tech is tons better!!
Creatine in a liquid is highly unstable. If you
have any doubts, have it analyzed and see for
yourself.It's fine for a couple of hours but
after that it turns into creatinine.How long
is it sitting on the shelve at the store or in
your home?
JIM,
Alternativenutrition.net
Alternative
Nutrition.net
I have been taking Muscle Marketing's creatine serum for a month and a half and haven't had any gains. I am able to workout intensely and my recovery has been great though. However, I'm not finding the same gains in power and my own weight like I did with the powdered variety. For as much as it costs, I wouldn't recommend it unless you are looking for your creatine to help you in the areas that I discussed above. I will say that I didn't experience any of the common side effects of powdered creatine while using it. The only side effect I get from regular creatine is a bunghole that often burns, no diarreha though. Does anyone else tend to have these problems?
Nope.
I think that creatine does work only when you eat and drink right while using the pill.i have been using it for about 2 and a half weeks now and i can see and feel the gain.
I have had no luck with any creatine. Protein is the only thing that has worked for me. I watch all these guys on this shit and I am still making better gains than they are. These morons think I am juicin, but they still donot listen. It is like with all this shit out there it works for some and not others.
I use Creatine serum, and I like the results. It does help you go up in reps, sets, and weight. I don't monitor my weight or size enough to know whether it helped there. MIKE L, serum has made my ass burn a little too. Kinda sucks, but I'll most likely finish my cycle. I like the energy boost. I never used the powder, so I don't know which is better.
I have used it and i get very good gains from it
it gives me energy, and a good pump, but i think cell-tech works better.
You only see immediate results from creatine powder and not serum because the powder makes you retain water, therefore it is not lean muscle mass. There is no way to gain over 1 or two pounds of lean muscle mass in one week. Even that almost never happens and what you think are wonderful gains is just water weight which you lose when you get off of it. The serum doesn't hold water.
The serum is a totall rip-off. Creatine does not go well in liquid form. AST just did a test on creatine serum; check it out on www.ast-ss.com
go to their daily Q&A...
It has about 1% of the label claim....!
Thieves. Con men. Muscle marketing is finished.
I e-mailed the President of MMUSA today because I was rather insulted, since I had bought 2 bottles of that shit. Here's the e-mail:
Dear Mike :
Since we introduced our product 3 years ago , many companies try to test it
applying the regular standard of creatine monohydrate . it does not work.
What we have is a complex form of creatine monohydrate. Complex means that
once the creatine is stabilized and chained so it does not degrades to
creatinine outside and iside the body , it cannot be tested using the
regular HPLC standard . EAS did the test before and then they realized their
mistake .
In order to get an accurate result and readings on creatine content in the
serum, the lab must get our methodology and complex standard to get an
accurate result and percentage of all the ingredients .
We do not appreciate your insult and calling us names . I can call you or
AST Dr. ignorant or amateur , but I am not going to do that . our product
speakes for itself and calling us names does not make it less valuable to
the end consumer who is getting a great result from using it . before you
reach a hasty conclusion based on a competitor's ill finding , you can call
me directly and address your legitimate concern .
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Letourneau
To: president@mmusa.com
Date: Thursday, May 18, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject: AST's Findings
>Dear Dr. Zeibak,
>Being an individual who takes his fitness and supplementation seriously,
>I am extremely upset to find out that your product, which I had
>previously purchased 2 bottles of, has 1 lousy gram of creatine in it. I
>assume that you have had a long day today, being that AST exposed you
>for the fraud that you and your company are. Therefore, I don't expect a
>reply from you on this matter. However, I challenge you to address this
>issue and back up your bullshit claims with some scientific evidence.
>Since I can guarantee that you won't, I would just like to add that I am
>looking forward to watching your company get buried. I personally plan
>to start a smear campaign on the internet to warn others about you
>scamming bastards. How in the hell do you sleep at night? I dare you to
>issue a statement regarding this matter on your company's website Dr.
>Fraud.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Mike LeTourneau
Their product is to complex for the test that sets the standard in the industry. What a bunch of bullshit. Dr. Fraud, may your company have a slow and painful death you miserable bastard. I payed $70 for 2 grams of creatine. Any more questions on the effectiveness of this product?
MMUSA EXPOSED AS FRAUDS!!!
http://www.ast-ss.com/q_a/daily/may00/daily_qa_5-17-00.htm
>
i tried it..the first day i got a huge kick after that nothing...i thinks a waste of money, and the only thing you're getting off it is a placebo effect...waste of money!
I KNOW 3 PEOPLE WHO WERE CONNED BY THIS PRODUCT AND GOT NO RESULTS.STICK TO A GOOD POWDER FORM.
Exactly, as posted above, creatine serum is a product that is feeing off of protein, by supposedly being better. However, everything that they claim is a fault of powdered creatine, is actually its strong point.
AS Sports Science, as noted above discovered this and went ahead and did tests on it. Can you believe it only contains 1 gram of creatine per bottle? Yeahup. That's because in a solution of that size, only 1 gram can actually be dissolved, and 1 gram is by no means effective.
Also, no matter the brand, creatine as a whole requires loading, that is the way it works. If they came out with a different protein that meant you had to eat 1 gram per day, would you buy it!? I would hope not, changing its amount does not change its function, and it functions properly in the correct dosage.
Don't get scammed because you don't know enough or believe what they say.
R&D
Muscle mag sucks
they r paid by muscletech
They both suck
The serum does what it says. IT lets you put in those extra sets and reps. YOur not loaded with water and you dont feel bloated contrary to powerder. And for anyone who does cardio, screw the powder. All that it does is make your muscles weak and easily tearable. And where there is water, there is lactic acid. Ive been using it for more than a month and noticed much benefits in tennis and in lifting. Though the grape could taste less like dimetapp...but ehh what can your do :)
u can mail me at imru7@aol.com
hey, well, i just started taking creatine, and after only two workouts, i have noticed a big difference, it made me stronger, and i've noticed my vains were popping out, which indicates that my bodyfat is low, which is good, all i wanna know is, how long does it take to notice a difference in how big, and ripped you r muscled get, please email me at the adress belpow
the serum may or may not work for some people everyone has a different body type, what i am wondering though is there anything else more effective than the serum, but will not have any effects on you later in life????????
No one of the supplements can affect you negatively lately in your life. lf you except the products that can affect your hormones (andros-DHEA), nothing else can make your health worse.
Everything has to do with the right dosages, and we always have to be around the optimum. (lf you take 5 gr of creatine, and you cycle it as EVERY scientist claims, for around 8 weeks, you won't have any problem, but if you take 50gr every day for a year, you will experience some very bad results right)? The same exists also for every supplement product on the market, if you follow the recommended doses its 99% that you won't have any problem but if you abuse whatever you buy its normal that you will have. (Hey even water can have negative side effects on your body if you abuse it)!
And just to know that if you use the right supplements at the right doses you can PROLONG your life, not shorten it.
Creatine serum sucks -- I finished off two bottles in just a week!! I'm going back to Cell-Tech or Muscle-Linc's effervescent brand.
DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHEN TO TAKE CREATINE DURING A WORKOUT OR AFTER A WORKOUT? WHATS BETTER POWDER OR THE PILL? HOW LONG AFTER YOU TAKE YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE? WHAT OTHER SUPPLEMENTS ARE BETTER?
DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHEN TO TAKE CREATINE DURING A WORKOUT OR AFTER A WORKOUT? WHATS BETTER POWDER OR THE PILL? HOW LONG AFTER YOU TAKE YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE? WHAT OTHER SUPPLEMENTS ARE BETTER?
YOU CAN REACH ME AT MY E-MAIL ADRESS FREAKE1500@AOL.COM
DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHEN TO TAKE CREATINE DURING A WORKOUT OR AFTER A WORKOUT? WHATS BETTER POWDER OR THE PILL? HOW LONG AFTER YOU TAKE YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE? WHAT OTHER SUPPLEMENTS ARE BETTER?
YOU CAN REACH ME AT MY E-MAIL ADRESS FREAKE1500@AOL.COM
The best time to take creatine, is IMMEDIATELY after your workout. The best is the creatine powder or micronized createne (they are both very good), and usually you can see a difference from the first week (especially if you have never taken creatine again), since you still are in the loading phase. The only supplement that works as good or even better than creatine, is l-glutamine for me, and of course a good whey protein powder remains always no1.
Hi, I just bought a bottle of MMUSA's creatine serum, before I read all of the posts. I decided I would try it I just want to know how long you are supposed to hold this stuff under your tongue? I'm 16 and tried powdered creatine once for about 2 weeks but went off bc someone said it would hurt my kidneys. The liquid isn't supposed to do that. Anyway, are you supposed to hold it under your tongue until the taste is gone or what?
Sorry anon, but you should ask here before you buy this stuff. Does not matter now how you will take it, since the whole bottle does not contain more than 4-5gr of creatine (totally).
Go to http://www.ast-ss.com and see why this program is one of the biggest scams.
Sorry, l meant in my last sentence why this SUPPLEMENT is one of the biggest scams, not program.
I don't know if you should trust that report. Of course their competitors talk trash about it! There are a lot of other companies making liquid creatine serums and nobody says bad things about them... and they are all trustworthy companies. Who is wrong?
Nathan, the most logical thing that MMUSA would do, if the product was really good, and it contains what they claim, was to sue AST for false info, right?
But from what l know, MMUSA did NOTHING after AST's report, thats why l am 99.9% certain that this product is a total scam.
ok, still, assuming the product contains what it claims, how long are you supposed to hold it under your tongue huh?
I have been using the Xtra Advantage serum and really like it. The bottom line is go out and buy it! You can read post after post of how it sucks and how it worked wonder's for others. Everyones creatine level is different and the effect that the serum has depends on that and on the consistency of your work outs. The scientist's put it right when they said "CREATINE DOESN'T BUILD MUSCLES, HARD WORK DOES!" Your body has stored energy called ATP and when you begin exercising it turns into ADP usable energy and then when your set is over it is returned to ATP. After a while the ATP source tends to deminish and your workout suffers. That is where the Serum helps you. IT keeps the ATp level up in your body allowing you to lift more weight for a longer period of time. I think that you will like it.
How do you people get the most out of the serum?? I took it twice and felt nothing. How long do you keep it under your tongue? How log before the workout do you take it?
This stuff is a ripp off. It's not the creatine that is making you guys pumped in the MMUSA serum, it is the royal jelly, ginseng and honey. If you still want this stuff, buy the Body Serum Creatine Elixir. Same Shit, but half the price. Buy powdered creatine, not this crap.
If this stuff is so good, why is no one else making it?? Because they are smarter than this thats why.
It has B12, royal jelly, ginseng, PURE CREATINE(2500mg in each serving), L-glutamine, and glucosamine. Powdered creatine is good , but you waste a lot of it. The mounds that you scoop into your mouth is wasted in the first 40 minutes of ingestion. It causes muscle cramping in some individuals and dehydration in others. It takes forever for your body to absorb. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match, but I like the Serum.
Het Tom, why not supplement with ATP?
Well, I heard that the the Xtra Advantage was for building mass and maintaining it. I haven't heard much about the ATP. I don't take the creatine as my main mass builder. I use it to maintain my mass. I am 5'7" and 187lbs. with 2% bodyfat(middle weight contender). I am going to enter the fitness and bodybuilding show on Sept. 16th in Dallas. I hope to win it. I was wondering, if you have any information on the ATP I would greatly appreciate it if you post it. Thanks in advance.
Once again l am saying. This stuff does not work!
Go to
http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/creatine_serum_5-22-00.htm
and learn why.
HMMM. It doesn't work and their are no law suites for false advertisement? Kind of makes you think, HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!
theres alot of supplements that are useless and dont work but there are no lawsuits cause the fda does not regulate.its just a game of buyer beware,but if you think the serum is gonna work then buy it by all means.just dont complain when it doesnt do anything.dont anyone remeber hmb?
I have already bought it and like the affects. I guess it works better on some than others.
Creatine serum doesn't work in my experience. It contains glucose (for good reason, to get insulin up) but this is all you feel. I would like to see a test on creatine levels in the blood of someone who has just taken the serum.
Stick with the powder.
I've used powdered creatine and stopped using it, why You say? because I saw on the FDA report and all over the internet that EAS is the worst company to buy supplements from because their creatine products caused over 20 injuries and death especially their Phagon II creatine or whatever they called it,AST claims are bull because you can't test serum under the normal HPLC testing standartds and I saw a report claiming that their product was 109% of the claim a scientific report and I highly reccomend anyone to use it because it doesn't have any side effects in the run,it is the safest creatine and the best ever!!
How can it be the best buff, since the Creatine can not be stable in a liquid form for more than 2 hours, and after that time period, it degrades into Creatinine? (Nope l have not read only AST's claims but at least two more independent studies). And if you remember, any serious supplement company recommends to take your creatine after you have mixed it with any kind of fruit juice, IMMEDIATELY! Do you think they would say that if you could drink it at any time you wanted?
And also l don't believe that 20 people either got injured or died because they were using Phosphagen, if l don't see the full reports from FDA, and most importantly if l don't see the CONDITION of the people that took it, because a)Creatine is a safe supplement, and b)EAS is one of the best supplement companies on earth.
l am sure that some of them took extreme quantities and some others had a pre-existing health problem before they take this product.
I would not be suprised if chemical research found a way to stablize creatine in liquid form. The details would be complex if it was. So I tried the serum, and it did nothing for me, except for making me hypoglycemic because of the sugary contents.
Yeah, and If it was A scientific breakthrough, and really was the best, don't you think more companies would have liquid creatine?? Any,way if you really insist, buy Body Techs liquid creatine serum, same ingredients, but half the price.
No I don't!!!!
When you make a scientific breakthrough as specific as this you patent it quickly so that only you can profit from it. And don't worry, I am not planning on buying any liquid creatine that is on the market at the moment.
If you check the U.S. patent office there is a
patent on liquid creatine. It is stabilized by
using sulfer. It is for animal use only and has
not been tested in humans as of this date. The
stabilization is only good for 6 months. This is
NOT mmusa's patent!
Would alcoholic drinks lessen the effects of my creatine serum intake??
Thank you
It is recommended that you take creatine serum before training. Why would you be drinking at that time? Also alcohol is counter productive to building muscle no matter what sups you are taking.
only thing good with the liquid creatine is the taste
i find it doesnt give u the mass taht powder creatine does.. but it does prevent soreness
anyways, i'd just stick with powder
I have heard all this crap back and forth about the supplemnts, i just want to know hich one is the best to make you cut with out the girl side effects? E-mail me plaese
I've been taking liquid creatine for about 3 1/2 weeks. I haven't really noticed a gain yet. Can someone tell me what a good creatine is?
Take either Prolab's Creatine, or Micronized Creatine from AST. They both are very good.
Joseph, anything other than creatine serum is good. I'm afraid you've been duped into buying a bottle of creatine waste byproduct, known as creatinine--this is the very stuff your body is trying to get RID of.
Dude I go to Phar-mor and buy creatine in the powder form for 5 bucks a bottle.
For how many grams?
200 grams. I figure creatine is creatine. I also get my glutamine there @ 16.00 for 300 grams.Protien that is whey I get for 20.00 a 3 lb tub. I know what t-mag says but sometimes this stuff is too expensive and you need to cut corners abit, but all these items Have worked for me.B
Anyone have any experience with effervescent creatine? I tried it and liked it (no diarrhea, cramps, etc.), but would like to hear what others think of it.
The serum is a total waste of $$ and MMUSA's claims about it are outright fraudulent.
What is a good product with effervescent creatine in it?
What does T-mag say? As far as I know of them, they've always been pretty liberal on the protein point, essentially saying "Grow is superior, but in the end any whey protein, perhaps with casein also, will get the job done." I buy Grow for flavor and quality, and combine it with inexpensive whey I buy from Ebay.
I was under the impression that the cheaper proteins do not contain all that they claim to have.Therefore the protein content may not be right. I remember vaguely that some cheaper brands are a waste of money. Didn't tc warn people of this? I could be mistaken. If I am clear it up for me.I also remember that bying cheap is usually what you get cheap.
Well, okay you have a good point there. That's exactly true. I should back up and clarify based on your point that T-mag's advice, and mine too, is that among *reputable* brands, there is very little difference in results. Optimum nutrition has been called into question recently, but vindicated themselves with independent lab tests. One brand I'm interested in right now is Gentec's "Extreme" variety--good taste, good BCAA content, mixes in water, and reasonable price.
Akicita, I have been using two protein mixes one for after workouts and the other for normal requirements. Both are champion nutritions,one is nutrimet it is a mrp for 20.00 @ 20 packs. The other is whey protein only,I pay 16.00 for 2 lb container. I have just found in Phar-mor something that seems reasonable and at the same time supply the protein needed.Precision engineered protein by Vitamin World. It comes in a 32 oz container and is priced at 19.00. looks like there is 17 grams of protein per scoop and they are small scoops. The best part is it only states to have 2 gms of carbs,so this would work for someone wanting to get into ketosis. I don't know seems like a good deal to me. what do you think?B
Sounds like what you're looking for! I've never done the ketosis thing, so I'm not the expert on that but my understanding is that even the no-carb bb'ers still eat carbs after a workout to replentish muscle glycogen and facilitate growth.
What is better to take Creatine Serum or Andros, to lift weights and keep more stanima?
That is true,usually I will take in champions nutrimet after a workout, but I am trying something out. I love to experiment with different diets. I am trying to do the fat fast but with a twist.I did this 10 years ago with the aid of no anabolics and I actually lost 100 lbs in one year. My energy was through the roof, but I lost a lot of muscle. This time I trying it with anabolics and Taking in carbs with my coffee only. I will be doing bodycomp program for this duration.I think th eproblem most people fail at this diet and feel weak is because they don't use supplements to fill the gaps with. I think vitamins and glutamine will also aid nicely. Hope it works.B
Akicita: I have tried and liked 2 types of effervescent creatine: (1) Creatine Effervescent Elite by Muscle-Link; and (2) HDT's brand of effervescent creatine. Both mix well and are absorbed without any problem.
Everyone, let's get this settled right now. Ceatine serum is NOT creatine. It is an expensive bottle of creatinine, which is a waste product that your body is trying to get RID of. One entire bottle doesn't even have a single serving's worth of actual creatine in it. It's about as effective and scientifically valid as snake oil. Sources on request, if you promise to actually read them.
I am 57yrs old and I am not sure if creatine will really work for me, because of my age. I tried creatine (by ProSource) and it did nothing for me. Perhaps cause i did not eat like I should have, maybe that is why it did not work. I do not want to be the next Sr. Mr. America, but I would like to look good. Would glutamine work better than creatine, or how bout ZMass, would that even be better? Help me out
I would take glutamine at your age, around 20 -30 gms a day broken up in divided doses per meal. Eat six times a day,If you want to enhance your t-lavels ,try zma by snac systems. It should be easy to find, biotest handles it. Do a search on the web. Also I found that tribulis also helps drasticly, it takes a bit. Remember your hormaones are really low at this age so it takes some time to replenish them. Once they are up keep them that way. I am 43 , I have been there. I hope this helps, I willl shoot you a mail if you hve any more questions feel free to ask. good luck to you.B
Well, I'm using creatine. It seems like it is working great for me. I have noticed myself being able to lift heavier and heavier because of it.
Many brands of creatine are expensive. I've seen some as high as $30 for 20 servings. I would recommend Pro Performance. When you look at their prices, it looks very expensive at first. However, look at how many servings you get. I have a jar of their creatine. It cost me a little over $20 for 90 servings. That's enough to last you a while. Also, GNC sells good stuff. Check them out at http://www.gnc.com
and see if there's one near you.
creatine serum is ••••••• bullshit.
Thanks for rehashing that. I don't think anybody else had made that point.
i am just beggining to lift i want to have muscle definition.I AM 185LB,510.WHAT WOULD YOU RECOMMEND FOR SUPPLEMENTS.
Creatine Serum is a marketing wonder, but a joke as far as a supplement. AST analyzed it and found it to be a total lie in terms of it's claims. Go to ast-ss.com to read the whole review of it if you want to. WARNING: After reading it you may find yourself in an uncontrollable rage due to being ripped off!
That is good that another person understands. good for you, but most every one on the board here figured it out a couple of months ago. I remember posting about this quite a while ago. I also have an article that talks about it...
One person at a time, and they will be out of business sooner or later. BTW EAS did a test on it too.
Look, guys I have been taking serum for 2 months and am in the best shape I have ever been, If you read the AST Review ...Sure you are going to believe it, but what about MMUSA's counter argument, if you use logic you can see that even if it claims to do what they say, AST and EAS must be looking at a disaster financialy if customers switch from powder to liquid, Im no sientist so Im not about to get my lab stuff out but, I have noticed changes.
The stuff is crap, and if you want me to get my lab coat out, and tell you why, I will, and I will post this great article, that explains....
i have been take creatine serum and it sux, i decided to get the thermo blend which is supposed to help give you energy, but i couldn't feel any difference. don't waist your money on this crap, so be mentally strong, and instead of relying on supplements to do the work for you, make yourself do it by pushing harder.
Or buy the powder like you all have been told to do. Anyone who uses the search function would save tons of money from buying creatine serum--it's a "waist" (waste).
I mean i hardly think that the company would just MAKE UP EVERYthing that they claimed. It seems retarded that the workers at MMUSA would just come out of nowhere and bullshit 10 things about their product. Some of it must have some truth behind it right? This is not a small insignificant product that no one ever hears of, so how can they just say it lasts for 2 years, its better than powder, isnt tehre some law against false advertising???
I just started taking creatine serum last
weekend and added 90 lbs to my squats. I
started taking creatine powder just prior to that
doing the loading(4 tsp-4x a day for 4 days)
but by the 3rd day I was experiencing
dehydration and good ol' diarrhea so I
stopped and returned the purchase to GNC for
a full refund( I love that policy). Maybe it's the
heaping teaspoon instruction that is the
problem for me(Can you O.D on the stuff if the
heap is too big?) This is when I picked up the
ATP creatine serum (to put on mass) to see
for myself if it works. I'll try the effervescent
variety next (although I am a little
apprehensive about what it(powder) can do to
my liver and kidneys-I'm kinda attached to the
little buggers and it'd be good to have them
around a lot longer)and start taking some
whey protien as well to see where that takes
me. This is the best board I've found so far
and I'd like to thank you all for contibuting to it.
:-) Thanks y'all!!! I have also started taking
SAMe for the joints and xenadrine to attempt to
drop some more fat so I can notice my muscle
growth. I'm at age 35 and the metabolism is
slowing down more which for me was never
that great to begin with(this is why I attempt to
increase my lean body mass so as to burn
more cal's) Oh well, maybe I should just be
happy I dropped from 205 lbs to 179 between
Oct 30 2000 and Jan 25th or thera bout with
sensable eating and exercise and finally
putting an end to my diet mtn dew addiction(
I'd hate to think about all the damage all the
Aspartame/ Nutrasweet has done to me over
the 15+ years I pretty much chain drank the
stuff- 4+ cans per day) Hey, does anyone want
the 4 cases I have left?
Sigh...Okay gang, here we go again. Independent lab tests, retests, and re-retests have established a highly reliable and valid conclusion that creatine "serum" contains less than 1% of the label claims--and even if it WERE the real thing, it's not gonna add 90 lbs to anyone's squats over a weekend. If that claim is true, the credit is to something else. You don't even have to look hard to find the tests on serum. Look around at Will Brink's highly-respected website at www.brinkzone.com, or see the independent tests for yourself at http://www.ast-ss.com/q_a/daily/may00/daily_qa_5-17-00.htm AND http://www.ast-ss.com/q_a/daily/may00/creatine_serum/creatine_serum_slice.html AND http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/creatine_serum_5-22-00.htm
If you're gonna use the stuff--hey, bud, it's your money, not mine (but as long as you're giving away money for nothing in return, can I have some?). But don't just go "Nuh uh!" when you hear that the stuff is a fraud. Pleacebo effect can be very powerful, but the facts are right there for anyone who wants them.
I think it was worth a try and I still haven't polished off the bottle yet-meaning I can take it right back to GNC for a full refund(sorry "Ak"-I don't have any cash for ya. Nuh-uh? I'll give ya all the aspartame/diet pop though). I did read the info at AST-ss.com and it's been helpful. Believe me when I say I regret reading the lies at creatine.com(mmusa's claims about their serum). I had taken the powder monohydrate stuff(loading for three days) so maybe some of the gain/placebo effect came from that) put out by Pro Performance but had probs with dehydration and whatnot. Do you know if the effervescent variety will be more tolerable than the plain monohydrate(Of course it's better than the serum)?
It is more tolerable, and does have less side effects (effervescent)
I sent a message to mmusa and they said they are in a law suit against at //www.ast-ss.com because of their claim.
I doubt they'll win a thing. AST hired an independent lab, rather than doing the test themselves, and simply posted the results. Literally, they posted photographs of the lab's own letterhead with the chemical analysis on them! It's difficult to imagine how they could be successfully sued over providing visual access to information that originates from within a third party lab. MMUSA may not like it, but AST's hardly the only site which publicizes the lab tests. Brinkzone, Biotest, Men's Health, and plenty of others have reiterated the conclusions.
I used Phosphagen and Nature's Best Creatine powder on and off for over a year, with pretty decent results, except I was always dehydrated, no matter how much water I drank. I've been using the serum from MMUSA for about a month now -- and I have A LOT more energy and strength for my workouts. My cardio especially improved. I can now do 3 miles in 20 minutes no problem, which used to be my barrier. I'm benching 20-30 lbs. more than a month ago, and am really exploding with squats. I started on the serum on the advice of my trainer who swears by the stuff.
Here's what MMUSA says in response to these "independent tests." I don't know if it's BS or not, but I'm happy so far with the serum.
1. Creatine Serum cannot be duplicated. It is the result of many years of hard work by our scientists and chemists.
2. This serum cannot be analyzed unless we provide the laboratory with detailed information on our standards and methodology.
3. Another possible way to verify our claims of our ability to stabilize creatine is if
we were to provide laboratory samples of our unchained formula before it becomes
a complex compound. To do so will jeopardize the confidentiality of our process and we are not going to do this to prove a point to a possible imitator.
4. Our formula has been tested by many independent laboratories.
They have issued their findings in the reports listed here http://www.creatine.com/articles/lab_results.html
Notice we have NO address for the laboratory.
NO phone # to call and veryify the results.
NO patent listed for MMUSA creatine in the U.S.
patent office.
BS. Let's see it go to court!!!! Then the truth
will come out.......
The lab tests at the AST site specifically mention this bluff, and rebut that a claim that it takes some kind of "specialized testing method" or "no wonder! They didn't use OUR testing method!" are both bogus smokescreens. Remember, some tests don't differentiate strictly between creatine and creatinine, so mmusa's tests are still a little suspect. They have one lab test that they reproduce on letterhead, contrasted to the many other labs whose damning results are all over the web.
No, you get the phone #, and address, you just have to look at the bottom. But here is the problem.
1. Creatine Serum cannot be duplicated. It is the result of many years of hard work by our scientists and chemists.
Why the hell can't it be duplicated?? It sure can be, but no one is stupid enough to do it. Especially the BIG supplement companies. The top dawgs won't touch the stuff with a 10ft pole. The only companies that will, are companies that are trying to make a couple of million bucks, and vanish of the face of the earth. I have seen other liquids on the market, and actually carry one of them in my store. And what, are they saying their scientists, and chemists are the smartest in the world?? I guarantee you the smartest ones AREN'T working for a supplement company.
2. This serum cannot be analyzed unless we provide the laboratory with detailed information on our standards and methodology.
Why can't it?? They aren't the only ones with the equipment. And their method; I am sure other chemists and scientist can figure it out.
3. Another possible way to verify our claims of our ability to stabilize creatine is if
we were to provide laboratory samples of our unchained formula before it becomes
a complex compound. To do so will jeopardize the confidentiality of our process and we are not going to do this to prove a point to a possible imitator.
What they are saying here is, yeah, it is stable before we turn it into a liquid, or some BS like that.
4. Our formula has been tested by many independent laboratories.
They have issued their findings in the reports listed here
So they don't give info out, and they don't say other companies can test it, yet they get it tested. Hmm, sounds fishy. My guess is they are paying the independent labs big $$$ to say it is stable. And you can't tell me that the labs they use know how to test it, and the labs, EAS, AST, and other companies use, can't test it.
But you are right Anon, sounds like a bunch of BS. Like I said before. SKW, the makers of creapure creatine know their shit, and if you could make a liquid creatine, they would have it out. If, some how it is done in the future, and is legit, you will know, because EVERY company will have it out.
Actually, there are addresses (snail and email)and phone numbers right there for you. Who wants to do some investigative reporting for us?
Scientech Laboratories
P.O. Box 5147
Somerville, NJ 08876
(908)707-0400
(908)707-0402
scientech@bellatlantic.net
However, I found a warning letter from the FDA to this lab regarding their testing standards and manufacturing practices from 1997. This makes me suspicious -- but the proof is in the pudding -- and so far this stuff works great for me.
How many tests would a company have to do to counteract every other company's claims that this stuff is BS? If this stuff is what it claims, then they got everyone else by the nuts until they can replicate the formula. This can probably only be settled in court if tested by a neutral third party that all the creatine companies agree upon.
Forgot the URL to the FDA's warning letter:
http://www.fda.gov/foi/warning_letters/m430n.pdf
Hey people...creatine is not intended to add muscle...it aids in the release of muscle energy and aids in the recovery process. What gets you stronger and bigger is the hard work and effort you put in at the gym...creatine just help aid your body with more muscle energy and helps create an anabolic state after you work out.
So the creatine serum is a worthy product because it does give you a great deal of energy in the gym and it does leave you feeling less sore the next day. It also convienent and easy to use. I do recomend using it 30-45 min befor working out instead of 5min like they recomend. Its the best creatine product for me Iv used in 3 year.
Are you on crack??? The stuff is worthless. It is just flavored syrup. Have you not read the millioin posts on this stuff?? Sorry buddy but it is a waste of $$.
And like I said before. It might taste good on pancakes, but I don't want to spend $40 on pancake syrup.
USE REAL CREATINE......
can i get an amen?!!! brother fit speaks the truth. flavored syrup?--aint that the truth!
Amen!!!!
Dorian
I have a question , I am getting “turtle tummy” , I know why it is causing me but I can’t figure out which product it is , I am listing out the products I use.
Z-Mass PM
Cytodyne - 120 caps
Androstat 150 Cyclo Poppers - Cool Mint
German creatin in powder form
ATP Advantage Creatine Serum
Super Anti-Ox Male Serum
Its one of the above but cant figure which one it is , I think it is German creatin in powder form , can you please tell me.
Monty.
ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT MMUSA CREATINE SERUM ROCKS AND IS AWSOME FOR YOU HARD WORKERS. i HAVE BEEN CONSTRUCTION WORKING FOR MY WHOLE LIFE, I HAV EBEEN TAKING THIS PRODUICT FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS, AND IT GIVES ME AWSOME BOOST OF ENERGY, AND I CAN ACTUALLY MAKE IT THROUGH THE DAY, THIS GIOVE YOU SO MUCH ENERGY, AND THE NEXT MORNING YOUR NOT SORE. I DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HOW MUCH MUSCLE, CREATINE IS INTENDED TO BE FUEL FOR YOUR MUSCLES AND THATS IT, F--K THE WATER RETENTION BULL POOP, I CALL THAT FAKE ASS MUSCLE, IF YOU WANT TRUE TO THE HEART CREATINE WITH NO SIDE AFFECTS AND GET YOU THAT BOOST OF ENERGY TO GET YOU THROUGH THE DAY, i RECCOMEND YOU TRY IT, FOR ALL YOU HARD WORKING CONSTRUCTION MEN FOR SURE. DONT HAVE TO WORRIE ABOUT CRAMPS, AND DEHYDRATION FORM THAT CRAP POWDER SHIT. BELVIE ME BOYS, SERUM RULES, IT GIVE YOU THE ENERGY AND STRENGTH. BELVIE ME I AM A 15 YR VERERAN CONSTURCTION MAN, WHO KNOWS WHAT REAL WOK IS ALL ABOUT, AND SERUM MAKES IT ALOT EASIER, AND YOU RECOVER REALLY WELL. •••• ALL THEM SERUM DISSERS BECAUSE SERUM WORKS
DO you work for MMUSA? You sound like one of those dudes that work for them. Take you creatine serum, and go sell it to some stupid person. Don't try and spew you crap on here to us that know the real truth. What don't you go tell the other construction workers to take it. The stuff is junk. Obviously you have never taken chemistry or any class towards nutrition. The crap is not stable in liquid.
Why don't you throw your money in the fire. Or give it to some homeless guy. It will be better used.
And I am one of those Serum dissers, so screw you you gullible construction worker.
USE REAL CREATINE......
AND LAY OFF OF THE CRACK, OR IS IT CONSTRUCTION DIRT THAT YOU INHALE.
Do some reading buddy.
I think the link to the FDA letter says it all. Read it in it's entirety.
The lab is a joke and on the take. End of story.
Bill Adams needs to spend a little more time working on that GED so he'll be able to reed and rite better, and less time trying to convince people of a product that is well-established as garbage.
just got the syrum... it is great...
used it like 5-10 min before my workout and I had a ton of energy and I was lifting a about 10-15 lbs more than the previous day!
The energy boost lasts for about 3 hours max... it is really great and easy to use... I love its convinence...
All these people here saying crap about the syrum and pointing to that review at AST don't know what they are talking about... obviously they haven't actually used the syrum for themselves for a good amount of time.
You're a dork, and you know why? Because you genuinely think that AST is the only company to test the serum, and you have no idea that LOTS of independents tests have been done, both on the serum itself and on the physiology of serum users. And also because you spell it "syrum".
This test measured the actual quantities of creatine in human muscle after prolonged use of serum...and guess what? There was NO additional creatine in their muscles!
http://www.geocities.com/smokinghawk/creatineserum.txt
This year's Experimental Biology Conference included yet another test on creatine serum. The conclusion: "The product underwent 3 separate analyses by 3 separate laboratories to determine actual creatine content. The scientists, just to be fair, analyzed two different lots of the Creatine Serum® product. Guess what? Yep, this product has < 10 mg per serving (it claims 2500 mg/serving). To put it another way, each serving of Creatine Serum® has only 4% of what is claimed on the label; the other 96% was mostly creatinine (5). The take home message, stay with creatine products that you know have a good reputation for quality control."
Third, ceatine powder absorbs just fine anyway--and heck, once you mix it in juice, it's a SERUM! Presto! Promised results, a fraction of the price! What you got was an energy boost from the sugars in the serum product, which is why it lasted briefly and then youb came down. I especially like that Creatine Serum promise that it won't cause bloating and water retention--yep, that's true! Say, that's also the *intended* effect of real creatine, dolts!
Fourth, AST isn't the only one saying this stuff. But they have a $10,000 reward for *any* testing company or lab that finds results of creatine content matching label claims in the serum. No winners yet.
Fifth, creatine makes no difference when taken 5-10 minutes before a workout anyway, so you've got a nice little placebo effect going on.
Just read fitforlife's post a few up and get some REAL creatine!! , what is soo hard to understand about that? so what if the you dont like the taste of sand , just mix it with some juice or if you have extra money get the falvoured type but the powder kicks ass and you aint gonna get nothing better
I used creatine for about two months and had some changes, but the weired thing is that after I stoped using it i got stronger and gained more muscle mass...So I need to know is it the creatine that helped me or just the hard work out?
dont believe the stupid lab report. the so called scientists have been paid by that supplement company to produce false statements. go for a larger known brand for the best bet if you want pure/close to pure creatine.
Bump all that. Think about it. The one that comes up with actual liquid creatine will have a goldmine because this stuff can be used in workout drinks, postworkout drinks , sodas whatever. Its something all the leading creatine brands are working on. And if companies like SKW who have the largest and financially strongest R&D department on creatine in the world can't even come close, what is some little backwater company going to do it ? And if they had it, why wouldn't they be marketing it out and really cashing in by now ? This is total BS. And if you don't believe us, fine, take that stuff to a real lab, and independent lab in yourneighbourhood and ask them to check the creatine to creatinine ratio and the actual amount of creatine per ml. That will settle the dispute. I know, i've personally had these tests done, and so have many companies. Don't know about AST as they are reluctant to show me the lab assays.
That shit works and i have only been taking it for like a 2 month now its way better than powder creatine and it tastes way better its like candy
Drum roll, here comes the placebo song ...
It can't work. It's almost like a contradiction in terms or an oxymoron or something.
Liquid creatine????.
Creatine, in a few hours, becomes creatinine. Creatinine goes straight to your bladder. Why? because it is a waste product. You are literally pissing away your money. As far as BC with his placebo song, he's right it's useless stuff sold to people to humor them. It's all mental -you think you are making gains. It's just sugar water with about 10% of the amount of creatine you actually need. Maybe if you drank a bottle a day, then you would get your 10 grams per day. Just another marketing scam..................
buy your own creatine, and some grape juice.
Hey BC, Cell-tech Part 2? 
More like part 2400
I didn't proof read before I posted..............up there, where I said "Creatine, in a few Hours" what I meant to say was "creatine in a liquid state after a few hours...."
hi juz some quick questions hope u guys could help mi out...im trying to get ripped and i was wondering if i should take creatine along with xenadrine n whey......
if i should, which creatine is ya preferred choice?? im currently taking designer whey now thanx for taking time out to answer my Questions
John
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SOMETHING NEW!! A comapny called NFS claims to have a stable form of creatine. They clain that it does not convert when in a liquid form. the reason for this they say is because it is mixed in an alkalyn base. There studies show that when you mix creatine with acids(fruit juices)the conversion takes only one minute, with water it takes 8 minutes and in an alkalyn it dosent convert. Could be all shit. n e 1 else heard of this??? plz reply
John -Creatine helps retain water, so no you don't want to take it for a cutting phase.
jamman - Blocking the creatine to creatinine conversion MAY(and that's a big, iffy MAY too) be possible, but at this point it would not be very cost efficient to the manufacturer or the consumer. Not to mention the fact I do not believe it will ever be possible to make a 100% stable liquid product. Maybe they can improve on the current 5%-10% stability in a liquid state. But not anytime soon, and not with out spending big bucks. This is why I do not believe a mickey mouse co. like NFS can stabalize creatine in liquid. They would have to charge $125 a bottle of a thirty servings of 50% stable creatine. When you can get twice as much 100% stable powder for less than half that! If it's true, it would never leave the shelf. It's bullshit.
Stick to powder, and a bottle of grape juice.