hey guys and gals. just like to share with you some information about my creatine intake. first off, i use Muscle-tech's CELL-TECH. aight now down to buisness. i recently switched from using the method muscle-tech prescribes to take creatine to a method i was shown by my friend. what you do is do a loading stage for a whole 2 weeks. thats 20grams a day. you completely flood your muscles with creatine. then you take 2 weeks off and then repeat. you all, this seriously works. i went from 80lbs dumbell chest presses to 100lbs dumbell chest presses, 60lb dumbell shoulder presses to 80 lbs dumbell shoulder presses, and a 295 squat to a 360 squat on the smith machine. i gained 7 lbs and a very slight decrease in bodyfat in my first test trial using the new intake method. remind you, the increase in strength were in my first trial too( 4 weeks!!!!). i would recommend this method highly. give it a try if you want to put on some good quality weight and get increased strength in your muscles. BE forwarned.... you will have to eat more!!! LOL i am eating more now than i ever did. email me if you have any questions. i hope this works for you if you try it. it is a little expensive, but it pays off in the long run!!!

By fitforlife ( - 208.190.252.229) on Friday, December 15, 2000 - 02:18 am: Edit

20g a day is too much, and any way 10g a day will give you the same results. Use the 20g like they say, so you can spend a lot more $$ than you need too. BTW that 7lbs you gained was mostly water weight. In the first couple of weeks, it is ALWAYS water weight.

I would not recommend this method. 5-10g a day is all ANY ONE needs, and you should be eating like a cow any ways. I am eating more now than I ever did too, and supplements have nothing to do with it.

It doesn't have to be expensive, but those of you who want to waste an extra 10g of creatine, and $$ for no reason, it will be expensive. Spend the money on FOOD.

By joehagy on Saturday, December 16, 2000 - 11:02 pm: Edit

well i would advise you to try this method before you knock it. everyone i know who has tried this method has achieved great results. from october to the current date, i have gone from 180-205. the first time i used cell tech i used the method muscle tech prescribes, then i tried my friends method. i gained sooooo much more after my second time around using the new method. just try it. you probably wont cause you feel its a waste. well maybe it might not work for you, but it has for about 3-4 people in my local area. i would just say try it, and then if it doenst work, come back to the message board and tell me why you dont think it worked and you can share your results.

By joehagy on Saturday, December 16, 2000 - 11:04 pm: Edit

and BTW, muscle tech recommends using 20 grams a day in the loading stage, and 10 a day in the maintence stage. im talking aobut taking 20 grams a day for 14 days straight, then take 14 days off, then repeat.

By fitforlife ( - 208.190.253.203) on Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 01:57 am: Edit

I don't understand why all of you people think 20g is good. Read this

Med Sci Sports Exerc 2000 Mar;32(3):706-17

Creatine (Cr) supplementation has become a common practice among professional, elite, collegiate, amateur, and recreational athletes with the expectation of enhancing exercise performance. Research indicates that Cr supplementation can increase muscle phosphocreatine (PCr) content, but not in all individuals. A high dose of 20 g x d(-1) that is common to many research studies is not necessary, as 3 g x d(-1) will achieve the same increase in PCr given time.


5-10g of creatine will do the same as 20,30, or 1000g. More isn't better.

Creatine= Water weight. Water weight. People need to understand it is Water weight at first. I gaurantee 95% of your weight from Oct. to Now is what I said. water weight. Ask Any body. Do you know how creatine works?? It is a Volumizing effect. Which means, it pulls liquid into the Muscle cells, thus increasing the volume of the muscles. It pulls WATER into the muscles.

Like I said before WATER. Every one supplementing with creatine will gain weight true, but it is not Muscle for quite some time, it is water. Understand?? Like I said up above, companies want you to supplement with 10g+ so you can keep buying the product. If you think 20g is good, by all means take it, but I am stating what scientific Medical Journals say. That's why I have never taken more than 5g per day. Did you also know that we consume cratine through out the day. With all of the food we eat, about 2-3g. So supplementing with the 5g extra is perfect. The rest will be wasted. You can do what companies tell you to do, or you can rely on Published Journals.

By Anonymous ( - 172.131.72.96) on Friday, December 22, 2000 - 08:59 am: Edit

Do you work for muscle-tech?? It sure seems like it. It seems like you want us to use all these servings and waste our money.

By joehagy on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 04:33 am: Edit

no i dont work for muscletech. i am 17 yrs old and have been lifting for less than one year. im just trying help people out there get more gains and recieve more benefits. well in onctober i was 167 lbs. and this morning i weighed 209. is that all waterweight??? no i dont think so. so you honestly think i gained 42 lbs of water weight?? lol whatever!!! creatine helps your cells be hydrated and hydrated cells support lean muscle mass. dehydrated cells have a neg. efffect on promoting lean muscle mass. and by the way i just started going on cell tech again and my chest press is up to 105( 4X) and seated cable back rows are at 212.5 lbs(10x). well even if i gained 42 lbs of water weight in that amount of time, my strength and size increased like a bizzotch, so im happy. oh yeah and for your study, the next time you put something out, maybe you should include like who the research was done on cause EAS used a similar study in bill phillips magazine, MUSCLE MEDIA, about creatine and the people used in the study were 4 women in their late 40-50's and the study was done in 1964!! so check all your info first. maybe your source is legit, maybe not. you can say all you want bout my method, but until you try it, you dont really know. and im not a freakin idiot. i know what creatine does, and what effect it has on the body. any person who takes suppliments should know what they do. thats common sense! yes i know that we consume creatine through the day. its found in lean red meat, chicken breast, and most high protein sources. and also your body produces creatine, which 95-98% is located in your muscles! AND FOR THE LAST TIME, MUSCLE TECH does not reccommed this type of creatine absorbtion. this is a method that was tried by one of my friends and WORKED!!!!! can i make that any cleared?

By Big Red Machine ( - 195.92.198.80) on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 04:20 pm: Edit

You said in an earlier post you went from 180 - 205 from October to the current date. In your last post you said you went from 167 - 209 from October to the current date. Your stating different body weights in october. Also is that October this year or last year because no one is going to gain 42lbs in 2 months not even if your on steroids.

By Anonymous ( - 172.141.153.196) on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 07:11 pm: Edit

I can't even believe this s hit. You're either lying or juicing.

By joehagy on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 09:27 pm: Edit

not 42 lbs in 2 months! LOL i meant to say, 42 lbs from middle augest to the current date! sorry bout the mix up. i have been taking cell tech for about 4 months and taking supplimenst for about 6 months.

By joehagy on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 09:28 pm: Edit

hey Anonymous, im not lying and im not juicing. try it!!!!!

By Dorian ( - 38.38.56.39) on Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 06:11 am: Edit

I would bet that at least 20 pounds of that is waterweight.Fit for life is correct in his statement. Creatine only uses water in the cells. It may make you a bit stronger, but it is not like a steroid, it will eventually quit working. Your cells can only draw so much water into them.If you are a newbie then of course you are going to make major gains for a while, but that too will plateau. so enjoy it until the work gets harder.Dorian

By Big Red Machine ( - 195.92.198.85) on Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Joehagy,

How much water do you drink aday.How many calories do you eat and how much protein?

By joehagy on Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 05:13 pm: Edit

i drink 1.5- 2 gallons of water a day. i try to get in 210-230 grams of protein a day( 1 gram per pound of bodyweight) and i take in about 3300-3500 calories per day. im in my mass phase right now and will start cutting down in early july to do my first show in late augest. thanks for responding big red.

By joehagy on Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 05:19 pm: Edit

dorian, thanks for your post. i know alot of it is from waterweight. but some of it is lean muscle mass too. i tried to research any suppliment im going to take atleast 3-6 months before i take it. like you said, my gains started to drop off somewhat in my second phase of using cell tech. thats why i tried the new method and i was truely amazed. but agian, thanks for you information and responding in a respectful manner.

By joehagy on Monday, December 25, 2000 - 11:54 pm: Edit

hey you guys, its christmas day. i just started my cell tech stage agian this morning as soon as i opened my present. my parents got the brand new fruit punch flavor of cell tech( the 7lb container). let me just say that it tastes GREAT. i think its better than the grape. it still has that little aftertaste like other cell tech flavors, but it tastes very similar to hawian punch. i would recommend trying this new flavor but get the small container cause you may not like it cause diff people have different tastes!

By fitforlife ( - 208.190.252.195) on Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Dec;10(4):452-463

Med Sci Sports Exerc 2000 Mar;32(3):706-17

Here is the main one that states 3g is as efficient as 20g.

Med Sci Sports Exerc 2000 Mar;32(3):654-8

This one they did 20g per day for 5 days only, and then 2g per day for the next 6 weeks
IRM strength of the arm flexors, body composition, and anthropometric upper arm muscle area (UAMA) were measured before and after a 6-wk resistance training program. Subjects trained twice per week with training loads that began at 6RM and progressed to 2RM. RESULTS: IRM for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from (mean +/- SD) 42.8 +/- 17.7 kg to 54.7 +/- 14.1 kg, while IRM for Placebo increased (P < 0.01) from 42.5 +/- 15.9 kg to 49.3 +/- 15.7 kg. At post-test IRM was significantly (P < 0.01) greater for Cr than for Placebo. Body mass for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from 86.7 +/- 14.7 kg to 88.7 +/- 13.8 kg. Fat-free mass for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from 71.2 +/- 10.0 kg to 72.8 +/- 10.1 kg. No changes in body mass or fat-free mass were found for Placebo. There were no changes in fat mass and percent body fat for either group. UAMA increased (P < 0.01) 7.9 cm2 for Cr and did not change for Placebo. CONCLUSION: Creatine supplementation during arm flexor strength training lead to greater increases in arm flexor muscular strength, upper arm muscle area, and fat-free mass than strength training alone.

There are my studies... Notice they are Medical Journals. Want more??? My sources are legit, and the best sources out there. I don't need some 17yr old telling me my sources are crap. Far from it.

So, 42lbs-20lbs of water weight in 5 months= 22lbs of muscles +/- a couple of lbs.

So 20lbs is about right. I went up 11lbs in 5 months. I am not on any creatine either. If I was, add the extra lbs, and you have about 25-30lbs. There you go. it is that simple.

Fact # 1- all that creatine isn't necessary
Fact # 2- half of that weight is water weight.

So to conclude 20lbs-22lbs is probably muscle??
A scale is a guide, and that is all. A scale doesn't know how much of the weight is water, and how much is food, etc... It would be nice if it could tell you how much solid muscle you put on, but it wont.

By Dorian ( - 38.26.142.248) on Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 11:17 pm: Edit

This guy fitforlife knows his stuff. Listen to him.Dorian

By joehagy@hotmail.com on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 02:57 am: Edit

um, i know my stuff too. read my earlier posts. i know what im talking about when i am disscussing suppliments. I KNOW THAT MORE THAN HALF THE WEIGHT I HAVE GAINED IS WATER WEIGHT!!! i am not stupid. but what im trying to say is that i have greatly increased my strength using this method as compared to the normal recommended cell tech usage and so have other people.

By joehagy on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 02:59 am: Edit

fit for life. okay your sources are legit. but goddamnit i didnt call your source CRAP!!!!! i stated that some sources do lie and statistics do lie and i simply gave an example. i dont appreciate the comment you made bout me.

By fitforlife ( - 208.190.252.195) on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 04:02 am: Edit

You should have read my first post, because it gave a reference. So I didn't understand why you said check my sorces??? The first on e stated it.. So I posted it again, and some more so you would understand. And yes, a lot of stuff lies out there. Including MuscleTech and their products. The only one I would ever suggest is the hydroxycut. I won't go into why I don't suggest their Cell-Tech, and Nitro-Tech. If you really read Muscle Techs adds, all of the time, including far back, and then read the ingredients of the supplements, And put what they claim, up against the REAL FACTS, and TRUTH, you will see, that all of that BS they write is just that.

For example. Take cell tech. Now they claim, that it is what 880% better than creatine?? I don't have the # in front of me, but it is close. So assume it is 880% better than normal creatine, Now, apply it to this.

Normal creatine produced these results in the study above

IRM for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from (mean +/- SD) 42.8 +/- 17.7 kg to 54.7 +/- 14.1 kg, while IRM for Placebo increased (P < 0.01) from 42.5 +/- 15.9 kg to 49.3 +/- 15.7 kg. At post-test IRM was significantly (P < 0.01) greater for Cr than for Placebo. Body mass for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from 86.7 +/- 14.7 kg to 88.7 +/- 13.8 kg. Fat-free mass for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from 71.2 +/- 10.0 kg to 72.8 +/- 10.1 kg. No changes in body mass or fat-free mass were found for Placebo. There were no changes in fat mass and percent body fat for either group.

So now, if we apply MuscleTechs formula of 880% greater results than creatine, we would come up with this.

(regular creatine)
IRM for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from (mean +/- SD) 42.8 +/- 17.7 kg to 54.7 +/- 14.1 kg

(Cell-Tech)
IRM for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from (mean +/- SD) 42.8 +/- 17.7 kg to 376.64 +/- 14.1 kg

(regular Creatine)
At post-test IRM was significantly (P < 0.01) greater for Cr than for Placebo. Body mass for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from 86.7 +/- 14.7 kg to 88.7 +/- 13.8 kg.

(Cell-Tech)
At post-test IRM was significantly (P < 0.01) greater for Cr than for Placebo. Body mass for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from 86.7 +/- 14.7 kg to 762.96 +/- 13.8 kg.

(Regular Creatine)
Fat-free mass for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from 71.2 +/- 10.0 kg to 72.8 +/- 10.1 kg.

(Cell-Tech)
Fat-free mass for Cr increased (P < 0.01) from 71.2 +/- 10.0 kg to 626.56 +/- 10.1 kg.

So, to conclude by using normal creatine, here is what the increase was by for all 3

1. +11.9
2. +2.0
3. +1.6

And by using Cell-Tech, you should come up with these results if they do the study using Cell-Tech

1. +333.84
2. +676.26
3. +555.36

Now you see why I hate this kind of bogus advertising. I want MuscleTech to put out proof, that you will get results like this. No other companies claim such bogus crap like that. 880% better my a**. And what is worse, is that their protein % on NitroTech is even higher. Something like 1300% better than whey protein. This is a joke too. If all of this is true, I want written proof that you get these results. Show us the data using regualr creatine, and then Cell-Tech.
False advertising if I have seen any. Other companies will say better than creatine, or etc. they don't throw out outlandish %. And MuscleTech thinks consumers are stupid. Now what do they have to say. Maybe we will give them a call tomorrow and ask them to send the data. Since I have a nutrition store, we will see what I can pull..........

By Dorain ( - 38.26.141.10) on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 04:08 am: Edit

No one doubts how much you know Joe, but I wonder do you really know all the supplements and how they work? I use to read the popular magazines(you know the weider publications and bill phillips stuff) until I learned a lot about the meaning of shit. The true meaning of shit is this, Supplements.Listen some does work, but most of what is out there is designed with your wallets in mind. I love it when you get a picture of this huge freaky looking guy, standing next to a set of weights and he's holding this can of some shit. He says(and he is paid top dollar to do this) I made all my muscle gains with this stuff, Yessiree kids try this shit out it really works. It does work it puts money into his pocket. These guys and companies give a shit about you and I. All they care about is to •••• you out of your last cent. See thy don't give a shit if you go to college, they will send theirs to college though, thanks to poelpe like you. Man I am not trying to start trouble here I am trying to educate a young man, and if he keeps blowing his money, he may have a bleak future hooked on other people shit. It is not the supplements that will make you, it is you and how hard you work at it. Good protein is a neccesity, water is a necc. sleep is a necc. vitamins is a necc. cell tech is not.You can continue to waste your money, but if you were smart you would see through th scams and learn from them. I know this is a bit winded, but this is one of the things that really pisses me off.Dorian

By Jimmy Skee ( - 172.164.62.63) on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 06:12 am: Edit

Dorian just curious: What are your stats? IE. Weight, Height, max bench press?

By Dorian ( - 38.26.141.97) on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 07:03 am: Edit

currently weighing in at 247 lbs@ 11% bodyfat,just fininshing off abulk cycle. I am 6'1",max bench press, that is one I guess I will have to think about. I work out at home most of the time, so I have no acess to a partner. I would have to guess if I can do 245 for 6reps, that would probably put me in the ball park. I guess I should go to the gym and test myself someday. The problem is I train everyone else and that gives me very little time to find out these things. I can tell you my arms are currently 17.5" waist is 36, chest is 48"legs are my smallest for some odd reason I am only 30".next time I go to the gym I wil find out what the one rep max are for me then I will post them.Dorian

By fitforlife ( - 216.236.17.168) on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 07:23 am: Edit

Now check this out!! I found out i was right about the 880% greater than creatine, because I looked in this months issue of flex magazine. Now, the first add on page 127 now claims that it is clinically proven to be 1950% more effective. And the add on page 201 last paragraph of the page says 880%. So which is it 880% or 1950%?

It is neither, but they like increasing the% every couple of months. by The end of 2001, it will be 8000% better than regular creatine. This is funny sh*t. I am still laughing my a** off at both ads. Oh, and on page 11 of the Jan issue of Muscular Development, MuscleTech claims their NitroTech is 2400% better than whey. So given 2400% for protein, and now 1950% for the creatine, if you supplement with these two, you should look like Ronnie Coleman, or Markus Ruhl.

I can't believe they post bogus #'s like this. Especially the 1950%, when 880% is also in the mag. Marketing, marketing, marketing is all it is. The better the % on their products, the more $$$ for them, thanks to all of the suckers out their who think their creatine is 1950% better than normal creatine, or that their whey is 2400% better than plain whey protein. LOL, and keep dishing $$ out to MuscleTech. They piss me off as a retailer, because my dist. don't dive me discounts, because they don't give it to him. And also, they have nothing for stores. No samples, shirts, posters, catalogs, or anything. They are too selfish to spend money on promo products for retailers. MuscleTech will be my next line to go pretty soon if they don't shape up.

By joehagy on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 07:58 pm: Edit

fit, LOL. thanks for the info. i see what your getting at. maybe they are lying, and by your stats, they are. but i still feel there creatine is effective, but not 880% like they say. hey fit, what are your stats by the way. and do you take any suppliments. for me i take, whey, creatine, aminogen, multi-vitamen, and sometimes eat protein bars. im thinkking about trying glutamine at the start of january. any info on this would be appreciated! i heard it basically does the same thing as creatine and should not be taken together( so like glutamine when you wake up and before bed and creatine before and after workout)

By joehagy on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 08:08 pm: Edit

dorian, thanks for your post. um i guess i was spending alot of money but it did work so that why i did it. but i just sent in some pics to teambodybuilding.com, where my friend chris is sponsered, and he said i have a very good chance of sponsership. so i shouldnt really have to worry bout paying money anymore. they offer cell tech for 34.99 for the big 8 lbs tub. but other than that and whey, i have to use their suppliments. but agian, thanks for your post and informative info

By joehagy on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 08:08 pm: Edit

dorian, thanks for your post. um i guess i was spending alot of money but it did work so that why i did it. but i just sent in some pics to teambodybuilding.com, where my friend chris is sponsered, and he said i have a very good chance of sponsership. so i shouldnt really have to worry bout paying money anymore. they offer cell tech for 34.99 for the big 8 lbs tub. but other than that and whey, i have to use their suppliments. but agian, thanks for your post and informative info

By joehagy on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 08:16 pm: Edit

i have a question. i hurt my shoulder a while back. i separated my AC joint. before the injury, my max was 225. and on incline dumbell chest press i was getting 65. now its healed, i assume. i got up 90 lb incline dumbell chest presses yesterday for 6 reps. but i tried to bench and i could only get 180 for 3 reps. i have no clue why. is this cause of the angle of the benches and the AC joint is more stressed on a flat bench than on an incline bench? i think this is the reasone cause i get more reps wiht 90 on incline dumbell press than i can on flat bench dumbell press. my decline hasnt suffered as much. i got up 105 yesterday. any help please?

By joehagy on Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 05:12 am: Edit

hey fitforlife, i still agree that muscle tech's claims for 880 and 1950 are false. i think their is no way that can be true. but they have a source in their ads to back it up. im sure its a crappy source though. in the 1950 add, look after the first sentence. there is a "1" their and at the bottom, their is a "1" with the reference by it. just letting you know this. but dont worry, i dont believe it for one second, althouhg i still am i big believer in cell-tech!

By fitforlife ( - 208.190.253.233) on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 01:54 am: Edit

Yeah, I know there is a 1 there for a reference, but what good does that do me when I can't find it?? I searched high and low in the MSSE (Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise) journal, and did not find this reference at all. Now I don't know why it isn't published?? Also, I checked the database for the Author, Kalman, and he isn't even in the database. My thinking is that it isn't published, because it's not true, that it is 1950% better, or they don't think people will go looking for it. Honestly, if it is legit, it should be in the journal, so peers, students, and professors can read it, and review it.

Now I did find the first reference for the Nitro-Tech

1. Forslund, A., AM J Physiol. 1999; 276(39):E964

But this journal talks about what MuscleTech says in the second column on pg 271.

A growing body (muscle wise, that is) requires more protein to support that growth.

Well, refer to the journal, and the journa; talks about protein. Ok, but the difference in all of these references from ones with % claims is that you can find all of these journals, but when you try to look for the ones about the "claims" MuscleTech makes on their products, you cant find them. Wonder why??? Take the references on the back of Muscle Milk by Cytosport for example. I looked for all of these a couple of months ago, and found all of the references they list. But you know why?? because they don't claim their Muscle Milk is 200% 500% or what ever; better than normal protein. It says on the back, and on their ad slick that canola oil is more likely used during a workout for energy, then being stored as fat. (Muscle Milk has 12g of fat in it). So I looked up the reference, and found it, and they were correct.

Now as far as MuscleTechs claims about 880% 1950% on Cell-Tech, and 2400% on their Nitro-Tech. I have looked for these references, and haven't found them.... Now If the 1950% claim, and the 880% claim are the same references, it is all abunch of BS. Because they arent going to publish a journal with 2 different %. I am going to find this out, and see if both references are the same date, and pg # if so, this ought to be interesting.

By joehagy on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 03:09 am: Edit

can anyone help me on my shoulder question? i do real laterals to strenghth the rear delt, so a lack of strength in my real delts wouldnt be the answer. thanks alot!!

By Dorian ( - 38.26.142.190) on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 05:21 am: Edit

Hey Joe( actually that is a song by Hendrix) I think that if you work your stabilizers the pains will subside. I had a similsr experience then zi started to work the shoulder stabilizers and such soon afterwards I felt better. I will look up in my journals and let you know what I did as soon as I can find this info. Dorian

By joehagy on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 06:07 am: Edit

okay. thanks alot dorian! ill incorporate that in my workout. if you have any other valuable info, let me know!! agian thanks!