Defending The Stack!

This debate raged for hours about the best supplemental stack for teen bodybuilders...see the outcome firsthand!
If you want to make the most out of your supplements you work your arse off, eat right, and use supplements which compliment each other. That is what I was trying to get across in my article, "The Stack," and I suggested some of these supplements. Todd Torns has decided I was speaking rubbish when he put " The Truth on Supplement Stacks" up, and he is entitled to his opinion. Though " The Stack" is not my best article, it still had some valid points and I stand by my stacks, and I would just like to point out (with some help from TBB.com writers; the knowledgeable Cal Mahoney and Todd Torns) some of the 'facts' that Torns may have led you to believe.

Here is the correspondence between Cal and Todd, sparked by "The Truth on Supplement Stacks." Cal sent these to me because he thought I would be interested. You decided for yourself:

CAL WROTE:
Todd,
I have just read your stack article and as a fellow bb.com writer I must say I'm pretty pissed off. Not that you critised Stephen Andersen's article (He is my training partner but we both have discussed how bad this article of his was) but the fact you would attack a fellow writers article when clearly you yourself have little idea what you are on about.

Ando's statement about glutamine and t-levels was wrong but he probably meant GH levels. [I did, that was a mistake on my behalf - SA] Glut raises them 500% in some cases but of course you didn't know that. Then you said glut doesn't aid in muscle growth.(?) Increasing GH builds muscle. You yourself said it suppresses cortisol. Cortisol is one of the main reasons muscle isn't grown. Cortisol is CATABOLIC. It eats at muscles and is made while you sleep. Taking glut before bed suppresses cortisol=more muscle.

Also glutamines main claim to fame is restoring glycogen levels = more muscle and better recovery and It also dramatically improves the nitrogen balance in the muscle (hold on, wait for it) = more muscle. [This why glutamine should be in every serious body builder's cupboard.]

Let's see what's next. Ah yes, Vanadyl. What magic vanadyl do you use and where can I get some. Vanadyl doesn't stop the conversion of carbs into fat (I wish it did). Vanadyl mimics insulin which drives more carbs into the blood steam leaving less to be turned into fat. [It also drives more Creatine into the cells, like ALA] How does it aid muscle growth. Well it mimics insulin driving the nutrients into the muscles. Insulin is the main mass building hormone believe it or not. It is VERY ANABOLIC. The whole logic for low carb cutting is to control insulin levels so fat can be burnt 'cos insulin builds mass!

Point taken on Trib but your T-levels are infinite and I know lots of teens who use trib religiously. [I was one of these people. Trib is great!]

Methoxy- Well I'll use my well worn creatine analogy. Creatine only works for 78% of people. Who says methoxy doesn't work for maybe 5%. You don't know. It don't work for me but I can vouch it does wonders for Steve [helped me put on about 6kg or 13lbs in about six weeks] and others such as Todd Blue etc.

You are right ALA is an anti-oxidant but it works exactly like Vanadyl mimicking insulin and is in fact stronger that Vanadyl. It does increase energy too something to do with blood sugar and glycogen. [It increases glycogen in your cells, so it combines well with Creatine.]

Dymetadrine Xtreme while a fat burner of such is more used to create balls to the wall intensity, you can lift heavier, harder and with more focus as long as you eat enough you will grow like anything. Xtreme isn't a typical fat burner--more stimulant.

To be honest your stacks aren't bad. But could you explain how ribose will build mass better than anything Steve said?? Don't get me wrong I love ribose but all it does is help with ATP production giving more energy. It has no muscle building effect at all unless you take a reasonable amount to spike your insulin levels but any sugar would do this as well as, hold on, Vanadyl or ALA.

Perhaps instead of saying "OK, the Creatine/Ribose stack will help you gain a lot of weight."

You maybe should have said "Creatine would help you gain a lot of weight." Cos frankly my dear ribose don't add an ounce.

Anyway we all like constructive criticism and I hope you appreciate this,

Fell free to critisize me next time but make sure you have half a clue about what you are talking about first.

Regards,
Callum Mahoney

TODD REPLIED:
All I have to say is that if you honestly think that Glutamine increases muscle mass, and Ribose doesn't go well if Creatine, you should not be writing for this site! And you should definitely not be telling me I don't know what I am talking about, because buddy, I know a lot more than you.

CAL REPLIED:
I shouldn't be writing? Hahaha. Now I know why Seinfeld quit because he had too much competition from you.

I never said ribose and creatine don't go well together. (I think that's what you meant to say, perhaps you should learn a new language, may I suggest English. "and Ribose doesn't go well if Creatine"(?) They go great together as the ATP nucleotides that creatine doesn't replace are replaced by the ribose. But I said ribose doesn't make you bigger because it doesn't. It replaces ATP nucleotides lost during exercise giving you more anaerobic energy and allows you to train longer and harder. It does not increase protein synthesis or volumize cells. It is just a sugar. A small and quite stupid school of thought is that is also spikes insulin (remember it's something you may wish to learn of if you wanna be a bodybuilder) and drives the creatine into the muscle better but studies now show a 50/50 protein/carb meal do the same and you can use Vanadyl and ALA to do that as well.

Now for glutamine. Perhaps you don't know how muscle is built or anything about you body so I will put it as simply as possible. [Here are some reasons about why I have come to love Glutamine:]

  • 1. People buy HGH to get big. HGH makes you big and increases lean body mass. Glutamine raises GH levels. Glutamine increases lean body mass.
  • 2. Anabolism is the state of 'building' muscle or matter. Catabolism is tearing it down. Glutamine is anti-catabolic. It prevents muscle breakdown and helps build more mass. Put simply "You don't have to go back before you go forward".
  • 3. Glutamine helps recovery. Recovery is where muscle is built. More in a minute.
  • 4. Glutamine suppresses cortisol- A major reason people can't gain. Cortisol is very CATABOLIC. People buy truck loads of cort-suppressants such as chrysin and PS. Why? Well it ain't to get small.
  • 5. Glutamine restore glycogen and improves the nitrogen balance in the muscle. Two of the most important things for muscle growth.
  • 6.My final point, although I could list more, Glutamine makes up over 60% of the free amino pool in you body, when levels get low there is no way you can gain.
[Todd says in his article "so you should know that Glutamine will not aid in muscle growth." This is just not true.]

If you really wanna suggest I know nothing have a go mate. Go on see what you can serve up and I will smash it back every time. It's all very well saying things but until you can back them up your mouth is better left shut. Tell me why ribose makes you gain muscle and why glutamine cannot, don't just say that. [Ribose is great for helping to pump out those reps, but has no muscle building properties] I could say that being [EXPLETIVE] by a midget gives you 21" guns but there would be no proof your statements are similar. I'm on holidays now and have lots of free time so if you want an essay or such keep firing you unsubstantiated claim this way.

Kindest Regards,
Callum

As you can probably see, all Todd's claims are unsubstantiated, but all the testosterone in his body has fired them up. Or is it HGH? I'm just not sure anymore. Essentially, Cal have shown how necessary glutamine is and how great ribose is, which appeared largely in most of my stacks. With reference to Methoxy, as Cal mentioned, it works for some people, one of those being myself and just because it doesn't work for Torns it doesn't mean it won't work for you. It is relatively expensive, so if you don't want to take the risk, don't. With the letters, there are a lot of good points, if you blot out the contradictory comments and the bickering, they are generally agreeing with me. Also, Ephedrine is best used by people who are about to die and I would not suggest this for people willing to burn fat, as there are better ways to do it. Here are my main points again:

  • Glutamine should be in every serious body builder's cupboard, and it raises GH-levels, not T-levels
  • Vanadyl drives more Creatine into the cells, like ALA. Both combine well with Creatine
  • Trib is great, but at a young age, unnecessary
  • Methoxy can be a powerful mass builder for some people
  • Ribose is great for helping to pump out those reps, but has no muscle building properties
I hope this has cleared some things up for everybody. My stacks are not rubbish, I just did not explain why the supps in my lists go well together. Sure they are pricey, and if money is a big issue then you can go with young Todd Torns' budget stacks. Just a quick word on those stacks, do not go out of your way looking for N-Large II, as there are many respected brands of high quality protein, and ask your retailer if in doubt. One last point, with any and all supplement or stack use, consult a physician before you commence use. Do not put yourself under any unnecessary risk. This goes double for anyone under sixteen.

Now get back to work,
Steve

NOTICE! This article has been debated by another Bodybuilding.com writer. Read the following article next:

Big Cat's Response: Review of The Stack Debates